Game of Thrones: The World Moves On
Our final live chat of the show’s final episode includes joy, consternation, mild satisfaction, no Lord of Light, no Meera Reed, and no democracy. Plus: did Tony get whacked at the end?
Chris: Did the sequence show a partially destroyed King’s Landing but also show an intact Iron Throne?
John: Yeah, I think.
Jesse: I’m still holding out for a Westworld crossover.
John: Ghost of Varys telling Tyrion “TOLD YOU SO” right now.
Chris: Huh Grey Worm must also be pretty short.
Steven; Grey Worm angry.
Chris: Tyrion is having crypt nostalgia.
Kellie: He’s looking for his bro ?
John: JAMIE’S HAND
Chris: RIP
Corey: LET HIM BE DEAD
John: The saddest sounding rendition of “The Rains of Castamere.”
Chris: Definitely.
Chris: Sad shot from above.
What’d she do with the magic white horse?
John: Yeah doesn’t seem like she got very far.
Steven: The unsullied have excellent posture and apparently multiply like rabbits.
Chris: Hahaha despite being eunuchs.
Crazy all the ash-snow.
Here’s a question nobody is going to answer — I still don’t understand why there are Dothraki still when we watched them all die.
John: I’m really loving how terrifying this all is.
Jesse: Subtle….
Kelli: That’s true.
John: And all these “fans” who didn’t think this was a possibility.
Chris: Which part?
John: How terrifying Dany could be.
Kellie: Hahah they freed people? They killed all the people.
John: Ohhhh shit.
Jesse: Dany Muad’dib.
Chris: Hahahaha basically!
John: Tyrion looking at Jon like “you know what to do.”
Kellie: Yep.
Zoë: “Which one of us is gonna do it?”
Hahaha I was referring to their Deep Look, but then they do literally have that conversation.
Kellie: Arya is riiiight!
Chris: Listen to Arya, Jon!
John: The expectation is Arya so it has to be Jon.
Zoë: Agreed.
John: “See I told you”
Love,
Varys’s ashes
Zoë: Anybody ever wonder what’s up with Daario Naharis?
John: Probably glad as hell she kicked him to the curb.
Chris: Hahahaha
Luckiest guy on the two continents!
Hear hear, Tyrion!!
Yes!
Kellie: Oh Jon, stop it.
His stupid honor is going to be his downfall.
Chris: He’s still half a goddamn Stark.
Tyrion is like the voice of the audience right now.
John: Jon is definitely killing her.
Jesse: I feel similarly, and my odds on him dying are going up.
Chris: We are 30 minutes in. we are definitely not getting any good answers. But I do still have hope of seeing Bronn on a hill eating an apple.
John: I also don’t know why everyone craps on Kit Harrington. He’s underrated.
Kellie: Oh, I like him.
Chris: Who craps on him? I like him.
Jesse: I get that it’s been a busy week or whatever, but everyone kinda moved on from the world ending zombie invasion pretty quickly.
John: He’s not the best actor on the show but he plays Jon well.
Oh, people hate his acting.
Chris: No, not the BEST but he’s not like BAD.
I know, Jesse.
That is a BIG PART of my problem.
Fucking THRONE!
John: Queen of the Ashes.
Kellie: A throne among the rubble.
Chris: Lovely photography this episode, I will say.
Zoë: This is a heartbreaking scene.
John: Phenomenal.
Zoë: And very beautiful.
Chris: I hope it crumbles.
Kellie: Agreed on all counts.
John: Jon’s gonna kill the shit out of her.
Corey: Someone murder this tyrant already!
Jesse: So I get I’m late to the party, but what’s special about this throne?
John: He’s about to realize she can’t be reasoned with.
Chris: Just symbolic value.
Jesse: Ooh, then who gives a shit?
John: For her? Her family was the royal family up until about 20 years ago.
Chris: Yeah, I mean it’s the seat of all the power.
There’s nothing MAGIC about it, but if you rule the 7 Kingdoms you get to sit on it.
Zoë: It’s more than that for her, it’s a family thing, too.
Oh SHIT.
John: YES
Jesse: I’m excited.
John: YESSSSS
Jesse: I wonder what exciting thing is coming.
Chris: Oh SHIT.
John: I mean that HAD to happen.
Chris: Yeah it did.
She never sat in it.
Zoë: I noticed that.
Kellie: Damn.
Corey: THE ONLY TIME I’VE RESPECTED JOHN SNOW
John: This Drogon stuff is kinda sad.
Kellie: Dragon baby 😢
Chris: It’s not the dragon’s fault, I guess.
John: Drogon is the smartest person in Westeros.
Zoë: Clearly the dragon has some understanding of some things though to go for the throne like that.
Chris: Yeah totally, intelligent creatures.
Kellie: Totally.
John: Oh yeah, they’re intelligent creatures.
Chris: I just mean like dragons are kind of naturally destructive creatures I think.
I don’t blame the dragon for the massacre, it’s just the dragon’s nature.
Zoë: Right.
Steven: Brilliant disposal of her body.
John: Yeah, like I think Drogon understands why she’s dead.
Chris: lol “She’s missing, idk, she went somewhere with the dragon.”
John: Well Tyrion is about to get some good news.
Kellie: Maybe?
It’s a sunny day now ! ☀️
Chris: Whoa, what? Lol
Zoë: Some time has definitely passed…ashes are gone.
Chris: Who the fuck are they?
Kellie: Who are those people?
Zoë: Lots of travel happened
Some Dorne guy.
And Theon’s sister.
Jesse: You still have a crusading army ready to go and a recently crowned warmaster.
Kellie: She looked different in the pan shot.
John: Gendry is a nobleman!
Zoë: Tyrion’s beard grew, too.
I didn’t recognize Gendry!
John: Yeah this is not one day later.
King Yohn Royce plz.
Zoë: Is that Edmure Tully?
John: Yes!!!
Chris: BRAN
lol Edmure, how does that fucking guy make it this whole series?
Zoë: Hahahahaha damn, Sansa
Jesse: First time someone mentioned that the “War with the dead” even happened.
Chris: haha oh that’s ROBIN
I told you guys Robin Arryn was gonna be in this episode!
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Kellie: Sansa ❤️
Chris: Sansa
John: Sam is there as the lord of Horn Hill!
Kellie: Hey Sam!
Zoë: Sam introduces democracy to the Seven Kindgoms.
John: Sam stanning for democracy and getting laughed at.
Chris: lol best moment of the episode.
Zoë: I was gonna say, THAT would have been a twist ending.
John: That was great.
A big F U to that theory.
BRAN
Chris: hahahaha SEEE
Zoë: Hahaha Sansa is pissed
Chris: This is hard to argue with.
Kellie: Hmmmmmm
We don’t even know his connection to the Night King.
John: Representative democracy.
Sort of.
Bran knew!
Chris: hahhaha SHITTT
John: Davos lmao
Steven: Six people in the room just said “Fucking Bran!!!”.
Chris: hahahaha
SANSA
fuck yeah
Jesse: Can we step back and someone tell me what’s literally happening here? What authority does Tyrion have? Weren’t they just asking for Jon? And decided they needed to vote for a king?
Chris: I think there’s a power vacuum.
John: Tyrion knows Jon doesn’t want it.
Kellie: Grey Worm — can he just be gone already?
NO ONE CARES
Chris: Hey, didn’t somebody say Jon would get sent back to the Night’s Watch?
Kellie: He can go hang out with Ghost.
John: I said he’d go back north.
Didn’t know the Night’s Watch even existed anymore.
Chris: Haha the fucking bastard non-bastard brother STILL gets sent to the Wall.
John: A crow once more.
Chris: Who would the other watchers be though?
Does he have to wait alone until more criminals get sent there?
John: I like how his hairstyle is back to what it was.
Chris: lol what
John: So wait, is Bran Bran again?
Chris: I wanna see him roll his eyes back in his head again.
Also where’s Meera Reed?
Kellie: Is he done warging?
Steven: Wtf was that.
Chris: Can’t they be friends again? He’s king, he should reward her.
Jesse: So did Jon’s dragonriding serve no narrative purpose?
Chris: haha yes
Zoë: Tyrion’s like, oh crap, shoulda got some flowers for a centerpiece
John: BRONN
Zoë: BRONN
hahaha jinx
John: A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE
Zoë: That’s what Tyrion was missing, some apples for Bronn.
Chris: haha bullshit, you can’t tell that story without him in it
John: Podrick!
I love it.
I did not expect Bronn to get what exactly what he wanted.
The jackass honeycomb joke…now that’s a callback
Zoë: Tormund’s been singlehandedly manning the wall this whole time.
Kellie: Yep. I’m glad we see him one last time.
Chris: They don’t even smile at each other.
Where’s the goddamn dog?
John: Last shot has to be a hobbled Sandor Clegane.
Chris: I don’t even see why Jon is so unhappy, it’s not like he ever expected a positive end for himself.
Zoë: THERE’S Ghost!
John: GHOST
THERE IT IS
Chris: Well at least there’s that.
John: Queen in the North!
Zoë: Last shot is Bran warging into Drogon.
Chris: And the eyes turning blue.
Zoë: YES hahahaha
Jesse: From what I’ve seen, it seems logical Sansa’a gonna cause problems.
John: Jon isn’t actually sentenced to the Nights Watch is he?
Zoë: I think he is!
Kellie: Ooh
John: Looks more like he’s the King Beyond the Wall.
Chris: A little spring plant!
He’s totally the King Beyond the Wall.
WTF is the Nights Watch?
Zoë: Jon knows better than anyone that nobody gives a shit about the Watch.
He’s def King Beyond the Wall.
Chris: Why not just leave the gate open though?
Zoë: Symbolism.
John: Wow.
Chris: Yeah that’s kinda cool.
John: THAT JUST HAPPENED
Chris: I mean I think it’s pretty clear that’s Martin’s real ending, more or less
John: Oh yeah
Chris: Plot wise it’s at least somewhat satisfying EVEN IF I GET NO GODDAMN ANSWERS
Like Arya, go figure out wtf happens in the weird cities of Essos before going west.
John: I am satisfied.
This was always a story about the Starks.
Kellie: I am more satisfied than I expected to be.
Chris: Yeah, I am too.
And yes, that’s true. The tale of the Starks.
So yeah, I’m not mad, which does surprise me.
Zoë: Jesse, are you less than satisfied? I am not upset but there’s something bothering me that I’m gonna have to sift through.
Could just be lack of answers about magical things.
Chris: If they’d told seasons 7 and 8 over like 4 10-episode seasons it probably would have made sense.
Zoë: I totally agree with that.
Kellie: I’m not totally satisfied but my expectations were very low.
Chris: Everyone prepared me to be unhappy about the lack of magical answers so I’m still unhappy about it but in a very unremarkable way.
John: Yeah like this last season they took the kind of liberties with time that we weren’t accustomed to as viewers.
Chris: Season 7 as well.
John: True, but this one even more so.
Zoë: I guess part of what’s bothering me is Bran.
John: It makes no sense but I like it.
He already knew it would happen.
Zoë: I find that somewhat disturbing.
Chris: Lol John don’t forget in season 7 Dany flew a dragon like 2,500 miles in a couple hours, and before that a raven traveled that distance in around the same amount of time.
Jesse: I’m not…mad, I guess
John: I know! That’s what’s great (that it’s disturbing)!
Chris: Lol why would the guy with mind powers be unlikely though?
Zoë: I didn’t say unlikely, I said it bothers me.
Oh, I guess John said it made no sense, sorry.
Chris: Yeah he did.
Zoë: I feel like the message here is like deeply depressing.
Kellie: Well especially because supposedly Bran didn’t have any powers from the start… we still don’t really know why he was the chosen raven guy. Unless that’s in the books which I have not read.
John: Is it, Zoë?
Chris: They kinda didn’t really explain what is supposed to happen with a semi-omniscient king.
Zoë: No we do not know anything about why Bran is chosen or what the fuck a three-eyed raven even is exactly.
Jesse: Understand, I LOVE the fiddly stuff in sci-fi and fantasy. I have books on conlangs, biology textbooks for fictional species, that sorta stuff. So not getting those answers really salts my melon.
Chris: In the books don’t ALL the starks have powers, at least to warg into their wolves?
John: Yeah.
Corey: Of course the message is depressing: dude is all “democracy!” and everyone laughs at him.
Zoë: I think where the book leaves off he’s like entwined with some tree roots connected to the past-internet.
Corey: That’s kinda the point.
Zoë: That’s like PART of the point.
Chris: I don’t take that to be the point AT ALL.
John: I don’t understand how Sam is Grand Maester when he’s also definitely a father.
Chris: Small things have changed, all of the kingdoms are reconfigured.
This is how history moves forward, not in a clean straight line.
Democracy exists in limited form in Essos still, there’s no reason to assume the feudalism of Westeros lasts forever because of this.
Corey: How is that PART of the point? The only people making decisions/ having magical powers were nobles.
Jesse: I don’t have much context for the characters (because this season’s been, what, 1/3 to 1/2 battles?) So I’m not sure what the emotional weight is here, but it feels underwhelming and like there was a lot of stuff with no narrative payoff.
John: I thought there was tons of payoff.
Chris: The idea that any of this would somehow lead to an immediate adoption of democracy is more far fetched than anything the writers actually did.
Corey: 100% rose tinted goggles if you think anyone in the whole series gave a shit about commoners.
John: Sansa is a Queen and Jon is a King. Just not the ones we expected
Zoë: Whoaaa I am nowhere near saying that.
The two parts of the point are the politics and the magic.
I am not over the fact that magic was real and it ended up not mattering.
Chris: I’m satisfied especially in the sense that John said — we get resolution for every Stark and that’s who it was really all about.
Yeah I’m definitely not over that.
Zoë: That’s what I find depressing.
Chris: But everyone said I should give up on that after the night king died early and they were right.
John: I love that magic didn’t matter.
Corey: >Dragon destroys King’s Landing
>Magic doesn’t matter
Pick one.
Zoë: But she didn’t win.
Even with a dragon.
Corey: So? Magic clearly mattered
Zoë: Things matter in small ways, I’m sure magic matters personally to Jon Snow.
Kellie: It matters, and yet we don’t get resolution on how or why with regards to the whole ending so I don’t like that.
John: Though you all are talking to me, who loves the ending of The Sopranos and has a vastly different interpretation of that than most people.
Chris: Yeah the whole tension around magic and its existence is completely left hanging.
I’ll die on that hill.
John: This wasn’t a Sopranos ending but it kind of was
Because it didn’t give you everything you wanted.
And that’s what I like.
Chris: I am perfectly satisfied with the Sopranos ending because Tony is dead.
Zoë: I love the Sopranos ending, and even though I interpret it differently than you I find it highly satisfying.
Kellie: The Sopranos was nothing like this to me.
Matt: Wow.
I dunno.
I’m let down.
Feel like we could have another 3 seasons.
Chris: HBO would have paid for it!
John: Tony isn’t dead!
Matt: We need to make a low budget cut rate NH season continuation.
John: You want another three seasons?
Matt: Chris, you will play Jon Snow.
Chris: We are the people of the north after all.
Sure, I’m short enough.
Matt: Chris, you are already King of the North.
Kellie: Wait who does that make me!?
Chris: Ygritte.
Kellie: SHE IS DED!
Matt: Kellie, unfortunately you are Sansa… plot twist upcoming.
John: The internet is losing its mind.
Matt: My prediction is within 6 months they announce a new season.
John: No way
Zoë: They’re doing like, what, 4 spinoffs?
John: They do have like 3 spinoffs though.
Matt: Who’s writing / directing them?
Different for each?
John: Yeah, different people.
None of whom are Benioff and Weiss.
Who will be helming a Star Wars trilogy.
Chris: Yeah lol aren’t they doing Star Wars now?
JFC
At least in Star Wars nothing HAS to make sense.
John: Yes it does!
Chris: I mean that would be a first.
The force is basically Bran magic
Kellie: Do we know when these spinoffs are supposed to happen?
John: No.
Like none have even begun filming.
Chris: I think one is actually in preproduction.
John: Though one was cast.
Zoë: At least we kinda know what the Force can do, unlike Bran’s powers.
Chris: Lol no
John: We know what Bran’s powers can do!
Chris: No to that, too.
Kellie: No we don’t!
John: He can warg, he can see the past, AND he can see the future.
Chris: The Force is this random and highly inconsistent energy that can be used for random shit at random times.
John: Really though what got lost in all that was Brienne being true to Jamie’s legacy.
Chris: Bran we just don’t KNOW the full extent of his powers but that doesn’t mean there’s no logic to it at all.
There are limits to his prescience (not a new idea) and we never got to find out concretely what they are.
Zoë: John, so true, I felt some feelings about that scene.
I have no feelings about Bran, maybe that’s part of what bothers me.
Chris: I like Bran.
Zoë: Even Dany in the throne room, there were complicated emotions based on years of watching her and caring about her story.
Chris: It was an emotional and fitting end scene for her.
Zoë: I am just so neutral about him. Like how I feel about actual bran.
Chris: Btw pretty much all of the spoilers we read a few weeks ago were true,
Zoë: Oh yeah, I noticed hahaha
Chris: They were incomplete but all accurate.
John: Oh, you guys read those too?
Chris: Lol yes
John: Hahahaha
Chris: I always read spoilers if I can get my hands on them
Kellie: I did not.
Zoë: I look for them; I’m depraved.
I don’t believe in things being spoiled though.
Chris: They told us about Varys and Jon killing Dany.
Neither do I.
ALTHOUGH
Didn’t they say Jaime kills Cersei?
Poor Varys.
John: Varys was redeemed.
Zoë: I don’t remember that, I just remember reading they died holding each other.
Chris: Ok if that’s the case then they were right about that too.
John: They didn’t explain EVERYTHING I’m so mad! — the Internet
Chris: Yeah I think I’ve accepted the magic thing as much as I am — they were never going to tell me as much as I wanted to know about the LOL and all that. Actually I wanted to know which of the gods are real and active. The whole thing. If I can set that aside I am really not mad.
It was a good story.
The show does not get an A+ from me but I was ready to downgrade it to an A- and I won’t.
John: Yeah I hope you’ll at least put The Sopranos ahead of this now.
Zoë: I’m sure y’all have read that someone, maybe GRRM, called the ending “bittersweet.”
Chris: No i still put them roughly equal; The Sopranos hovers between A and A- for me.
John: Insanity.
Zoë: And reading the spoilers and even beginning this episode, I was like…nahh, that’s gonna be the wrong word.
But I think that’s probably what I’m feeling.
Chris: The Sopranos has the opposite problem of this show, instead of speeding up the last few seasons it meanders.
John: The Sopranos is the greatest thing ever. These are NOT equal!
Chris: The only shows I have at an A+ are The Wire and Deadwood and sometimes Six Feet Under.
John: Ridiculous
Chris: You have to be flawless to get an A+ and The Sopranos was not flawless.
It’s not an insult to The Sopranos! I have like 6 shows that get any kind of A at all.
Mad Men, Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Game of Thrones, Deadwood, and The Wire. When I’m feeling charitable I give Breaking Bad an A-.
Zoë: I was wondering where Mad Men was in your grading scale.
Chris: Mad Men is an A
Sometimes A-
Same as Sopranos
Zoë: What did you think about the Mad Men ending?
John: Mad Men is inferior to The Sopranos.
Chris: I loved the Mad Men ending.
John: The ending was great.
Chris: I didn’t love the last EPISODE necessarily because it was weird and didn’t feel right but the conclusion was perfect.
John: And very Sopranos-esque.
Chris: Yes I agree
I love that ending too.
Zoë: Yeah, I loved it too. Just wanted to know where we all stood on all the controversial endings hahahaha
John: Because interpretations and such
Chris: Yeah but I feel the same way about the Mad Men ending as I do about the Sopranos one — that it’s not ambiguous.
John: Obviously Don went back and co-opted the hippy lifestyle into a Coke ad.
Chris: Right.
And the world moved on.
Kellie: Oh, I agree about the Mad Men ending too.
Zoë: So four of us agree on THAT ending, so there’s progress!
John: Funny how we have the same interpretation about Mad Men and different about Sopranos.
Chris: Man, you’re the only person I have ever known with that opinion about the Sopranos ending.
I think there’s some of that as well in GoT: the world is moving on.